Quasi-astrological branches of Knowledge

Discussion in 'What, Why and How of Astrology' started by TheSeeker, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. TheSeeker

    TheSeeker New Member

    I hope this thread is suitable for this section.

    there are many branches of knowing about the future apart from traditional astrology, famous locally, say in villages and hamlets, not just in India, but in other parts of the world too. however, i will limit the discussion to India.

    one such is Angul/Angushtha-Shaastra, or the method of telling past and future from studying the prints of one's thumb. this knowledge is said to be nurtured at Gulbarga, Karnataka atleast (may be in some other parts of the country too), and is said to be derived from Raavan-Samhita. there's another such branch that's said to be derived from Naarad-Samhita, but i can't recall about it ATM.

    in Angul Shaastra, the seer takes impression of the thumb of a person, then asks her/him to wait for sometime to search for patrika pertaining to him, like in Bhrigu Jyotish (of which there's no guarantee that it would be available), and if & when found, proceeds to ask some questions to the subject which he has to answer in only 'yes' or 'no', and then the seer later gives his reading about the past events of the subject, what aspirations might he be nurturing, and events to come in the near (and at times distant) future. of the latter, there may be some wrong predictions, but readings about the past-events come out fairly accurate for many, and these aren't some trivial details that skeptics would like to 'believe' that the seer might've made the subject blurt out some personal-details in questioning, but details which many-a-times are very personal to the subject, and of which one can't get a hint by just mere questioning in one-liners.

    ofcourse, there are crooks too here, out to make money from this, and reeling off some nonsensical predictions and solutions, but there are many genuine ones too, some take charge for their services, others a paltry sum or nothing. there is atleast one at Mumbai whom an aunt of mine and later a friend of hers too had consulted once. the details that the seer gave to them, in their own words, made their jaws drop! of the prediction(s) that he had given to my aunt, atleast one that i know of has indeed come out true, very fruitfully! i or my family-folks too may visit him sometime soon.

    now in traditional astrology, AFAIK, foreseeing and predictions are done based on positions of planets, etc., but how would one account for such methods of telling like Angushtha-Shaastra? not to forget, there are many more ways of telling, like reading the forehead, palmistry, reading the dried lines of coffee in a cup that a subject has drank, reading naadi, etc. (i have read about a terrific vaidya and jyotishi who used to live in Varanasi, whose method of diagnosis was, a person who used to enter his home was required to first strike a bell at his door, following which the vaidya would note down his time of entry and some other details, then proceed to check his pulse, and then give a superb account of the ailment{s} the subject has been suffering from, his past events, followed by a diagnosis).

    are these the mix of some occult knowledge known too less about, mixed with the development of the power of intuition? i can think of only of such a basis. even traditional astrology practised sincerely develops intuitive powers of a practitioner over time. moreover, many such sincere practitioners, in quasi-astro branches too, are engaged in some spiritual practice or the other, for instance, worshipping of the Dattatreya Yantra. but apart from this, what else could be the basis behind such sciences, esp. that would pertain to the manual calculations part? or was that already taken care of by the ancient Rishis, and thus we have patrikaas from them, where a practitioner finds info about a subject. but that still doesn't seem to explain other forms of knowing, like the ones mentioned above.
  2. raju

    raju New Member

    it would be nice if someone writes an artice about plamistry.. it would be quite helpful.

    people say the entire life of a person is writen on our palms. does plamistry has anything to do with astrology?
  3. TheSeeker

    TheSeeker New Member

    A brief experience with a Naadi Jyotish centre:

    so my parents had been to a Naadi Jyotish Centre a week back for a reading for my father. basically what they do there is take the thumb-print (right hand) if a male, and then proceed on to ask various questions to the subject, based on which they filter and sort out a leaf of details about the subject's life. this is a little time-consuming process, and it may happen that a subject's leaf may eventually not be found.

    however, if the leaf is found, they then proceed on to read what's written on it (in Tamil), and translate that to you. now like other fields of the 'occult', here too fraudsters galore, from 'cold readers' to scare-mongers and all. however, once-in-a-while, one does come across genuine readers that read out very accurate details about one, even if one is super-cautious beforehand in not revealing more than the necessary details while being questioned. but, i presume most such are to be found in non-commercialised places, like say villages, or in corners of some town or city. in the present case, the reader was quite amiable, gave out some really good details (which couldn't have been cold read according to me), was upfront in prompting to ask and clear doubts if any, and recorded the reading onto a disk which was handed later. briefly, the following was what was read out (leaving out some details):

    the reader doesn't just restrict to the subject, but gives some details and insights about the subject's immediate family/family-members as well....

    # about my father, not everything told was correct, although a foreteller should be given the allowance for errors. was told:

    -- most work which seems that would conclude well, botches up nearing the end, and has been happening so since quite some time - correct

    -- if all members in the family seem to have settled in their matters, and peace seems just settling in, something or the other issue crops up - very true!

    (the above two could also be said to be 'generic', but they were correct nonetheless)

    -- my father doesn't easily trust someone nor do others trust him easily - very incorrect; quite the opposite is true!

    -- people try to take monetary benefit of father's gentle behaviour - very true. can say to have happened often. infact, this has what has been a matter of upsetting my Mother since long, that relatives sweet-talk to him and extract money out of him.

    -- father's emotionally connected with relatives and holds dear such relations - very true. very attached and committed. seldom does any weekend goes by when i don't taunt him regarding this. it often irritates me too.

    -- money when given to someone in need doesn't come back - partially true.

    -- a few more things told, regarding health, etc., which i can't recall at the moment, so skipping those.

    # about my Mother, the reader read out some amazingly accurate details! for instance, that she is/will be suffering from stomach and uterus disorders - yes, she's been suffering from these since years, had 1-2 surgeries too; even though she's a good practitioner of Yog & Pranayam, and teaches to some in our society, but these have been ailing her. but yes, the afflictions have mellowed quite a bit.

    -- she's been advised to strictly keep to her daily regimen, eat properly (doesn't; liking for food has greatly diminished), sleep well and on time (she does), else chances are that the disorders could worsen to something worse like TB, etc. also, was told in indications, as if really checked her pulse, to keep a moderate attitude - not too happy when a joyous situation comes, and not too sad when otherwise. this applies to her very well! all-in-all, almost everything told about her was correct.

    # about me, it was told that i have a different kind of thinking, and this may at times lead me to take some wrong decisions - very accurate there! although i presume everyone likes to think that they 'think differently', but in my case, its of a radical nature, something that may make me well a misfit for the conventional society. its like what the landmark work of the brilliant author late Colin Wilson described, 'The Outsider', if anyone here has read it (i had gone through only a few initial pages of it long back). wouldn't expound on this here else the post would run longer.

    -- again, was told about me that i suffer/may suffer from hormonal problems (what kind, wasn't explained) - infact, since past some years, i have been suffering from stomach and musculo-skeletal problems. i have a tendency to develop kidney stones if i skimp on proper water-intake (habit improved a lot now), and problems of muscles/tendons & ligaments and bones, esp. in the legs, have kept striking me often now. these weren't read out about me by the reader.

    -- the reader also read that love or/and marriage in my life will bring a change of thinking and attitude in me for the better - literally made me smile on myself when i came to know this! indeed, love is what had brought about a second catalytic radical turn in my life some years back, and it is what has been driving home lessons about a better understanding of the workings of life in my stubborn and dull mind since sometime, even though it was not in the form that's usually imagined (in a fancy way). i now know why in Hindu tradition and customs the wife is called a form of 'Lakshmi', as she brings forth a new dawn of progress and prosperity in a man's life (funnily, i have learned this lesson without being a party to the experience; its not for no reason that its said that absence/failure/suffering is a better teacher than presence/success/pleasure/abundance). for the same reason have i learnt/been learning to avoid and desist from being rude, insulting, tormenting, disregarding towards a girl/woman.

    # For my brother, the reader again read out the readings that almost match to what exists (vis-a-vis me).

    # The reader suggested ‘parihaarams’ (parihaarya) or remedies primarily for the afflictions ailing the family (that what he had suspected as being hexed by someone; either evil eye or any form of curse or actually being hexed). One of these is to conduct a ritual like organizing a Satyanarayan Katha or Ganapati Homam yearly at home (one of my neighbours do it every year; we at our home conduct Havans about thrice an year, which mostly we only perform, and no one else apart from the 4 of us is usually present in it). The other more immediate one was conduction of Pooja on our behalf at some South Indian temple (I don’t know which one; parents know) for 48 days, which must have started now (twice daily). This is to be concluded by worshipping the Kuldevi at our native village. Although our family has ‘Thakurji’ as our family deity (the child form of Shree Ram), but our village does have a temple of a form of Mother Goddess named Alopi Devi, and we would be travelling to the place in June for the one-day ritual.

    # All this has re-generated the interest in me, and I would most probably myself visit this or another branch of the same organization soon to ask some particular queries of mine.

    This is the reader who had read the leaves for my parents (Swami Selvam):

    (check a few other vids of the publisher, like the one on conversation with Dr. Vijay Bhatkar)
  4. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    I have been to one of these Nadi jyotish centres. I went to the one at Chennai in Thambram. I am not very convinced with what they do there. I find it strange that they had no dates or even years. They predicted a few things for certain age and that time is already gone with nothing of that sorts happening.
  5. TheSeeker

    TheSeeker New Member

    quite a few learned astrologers are not convinced with whats being practised and promoted as Naadi Jyotish, and find it dubious as against the proper calculative analysis and such as done in traditional astrology. also, they are known for giving impressive readings about the past, present, particulars of relations, etc., but predictions are not very fruitful. plus, being used for commercial purposes, much scamming has seeped in it looks. one such branch here at Santa Cruz is infamous for that. also, saw a short documentary of a South Indian news channel on the fraud being perpetrated in the name of Naadi Jyotish, where they showed how many of them are using leaves being 'manufactured' at small villages in Tamil Nadu from i think palm trees. however, even after all this, can once-in-a-while find testimony of a few who share their amazing experiences with some seemingly genuine readers. guess its very tough to find them too.

    have you been to any of the Sharma families in Hoshiarpur who are the custodians of the Bhrigu leaves? there is/was atleast one gentleman in Varanasi too who was said to have those leaves (had read on a blog long back).

    P.S. - one thing i forgot to write in my earlier post - Swami Selvam had indicated at Kaal Sarp Yog probably afflicting my father. now i have read earlier that this Yog is an invention of the mercenary South Indian astrologers from the 70s-80s, to scare people and extract money out of them. so i deem it better to just take in what seems good and plausible in a reading from better Naadi readers, and leave out the rest, even not paying too much consideration to their 'predictions', which after all seemed generic and not very specific. my father was told that better time would come for him after following the parihaarams, esp. towards the latter quarters of the year, and for me, during the age of 58-62 of my father. i take that to be just a very general sort of benign prediction, and not too seriously. as i wrote, it looks better for telling the characteristics of a person than foretelling about him. although i would like to be proved wrong by some really genuine reader or anyone who had a contrary experience with whom i may come into contact.

    would you recommend me any tips for cross-checking or any question(s) that i should pose to the reader, or even any tips to prepare myself and test him/be resistive towards any form of cold-reading?! please do think & suggest if you may.
  6. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    Astrology is evolving and anything written 200 years ago did not exist 3000 years ago so saying that kaal sarpa yoga was invented 200 years ago does not say much in itself. I have this Ananta kaal sarpa yoga where Rahu and ketu are in 1-7 axis and rest of the planets are all in the 9th,10th and 11th house so there is no conjunction with Rahi Ketu either and I find that whatever is said about Kaal sarpa yoga holds some truth in it.

    The traditional vedic astrology does it for me so I dont really look at different stuff often. There is nothing a vedic astrologer cannot tell and a nadi guy can so what is the point?

    Astrology in my opinion is a way to improve quality of life and any above average astrologer can be good enough.
  7. TheSeeker

    TheSeeker New Member

    sorry. kaal sarp yog may be fine, i meant to write 'kaal sarp dosh', which was a distortion invented a few decades earlier, and doesn't find any mention or has any reference to in the original scriptures (may be am mixing some things here, but this was what i had read). its purpose for which it has come to be utilised is said to be to scare people and push them into shelling out much money in the name of/for the suggested expensive rituals/remedies.

    for people like me, with neither an average knowledge nor any clue of whom to approach to and who could be genuine, we get frequently enamoured and many-a-times disoriented by all such branches and options.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  8. Admin

    Admin Administrator Staff Member

    I wont call it a dosha because there are plus and minus. Having too many planets concentrated on one side of the chart comes with its own set of problems and benefits. Kaal sarp yoga cannot be looked at on its own. The whole chart has to be looked at for making a prediction.

    When we say Kaal sarpa yoga does not mean anything we tend to forget that there have been so many famous personalities that had Kaal sarpa yog which included Jawahar lal Nehru but if you look closely it is not complete as there is either a conjunction with Rahu/Ketu or one of the planets outside even if vakri.

    Life gets difficult in some respects for those who have Kaal sarpa yoga but at some point in life such people see success of an enormous proportion.

    Nehru suffered loss of reputation and also had everything going against him in the last years of his life. Not an easy life by any standards when you are leading a country that lost a war against China. Nehru's relationship with his family is also questionable from what I hear and understand.
    Deepak Chauhan and TheSeeker like this.
  9. TheSeeker

    TheSeeker New Member

    absolutely! overall, a chart reflects various yogas and they should be looked in totality, as a single yog alone doesn't make or break one but its the combined effect of all at various stages of one's lifetime is what i've read.

    i've read that many personalities saw great good/success in this life, despite this yog being present in their charts; perhaps reaffirms that a chart a should be looked in totality and not on the basis of isolating a yog here-and-there and dissecting it unnecessarily. nehru's name is being drummed over for all the wrong reasons still (guess his KSY was far more detrimental to this nation than to himself). the less spoken or written about him the better, but i anyway welcome his name popping up and still fresh in public memory for revelatory and not-so-goody-goody reasons.
    Deepak Chauhan likes this.
  10. sadhana

    sadhana New Member

    Good post

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